Comments on Bitter Greens Journal: Ethanol and 'peak oil': an aside

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Dr. Van Pelt,Thanks for these thorough and interes...

2005-08-08T12:52:00.000-04:00

Dr. Van Pelt,
Thanks for these thorough and interesting responses.
Tom

I like to add another comment to the energy-balanc...

2005-08-08T10:48:00.000-04:00

I like to add another comment to the energy-balance dispute on ethanol. I also analysed the paper by Mr. Shapouri of the USDA (
http://www.ethanol.org/pdfs/
energy_balance_ethanol.pdf) and found out how he comes to a net energy balance for ethanol. One must first realise that in any chemical process where a material is transformed in something else, it is never a matter of simply converting A into B. In the corn-ethanol case, many things are needed to get corn from a field (energy for machines, fertilizers, herbicides etc; human labour; water/irrigation; sunlight etc.). After harvesting and transport to the ethanol factory, the transformation of corn into ethanol can take place. But besides ethanol, at least two other products are made: DDG (a dry organic mass that is usefull as cattle-fodder) and a stream of waste-water (that must be treated at an expense of energy and machinery).
What Mr. Shapouri does is to say, that part of the energy is spent to make DDG (which is true, of course) and this part of the energy that the whole cycle took is subtracted from the ethanol input. The more energy from the whole process you allocate to the DDG, the less it obviously took to make the ethanol.
This is a nice game of numbers that gives you a net energy as outcome for ethanol production. But in fact, it boils down to saying: ethanol is just a by-product and comes almost 'for free'. But looking at the price of ethanol (even after the 57 cent state subsidy is subtracted) you note that ethanol costs about $1,50 per liter, substantially more than a liter of gasoline from the refinery. Something is wrong here. On paper, ethanol production is not so energy intensive (making it look good for subsidising agencies) but at the check-out counter te full price for the energy spent to make the product appears on the bill!
I remain with my statement, that ethanol is not a 'green' replacement for oil and does not make us less dependent on oil.

Hello Tom,the last weeks I have read and analysed ...

2005-08-07T09:07:00.000-04:00

Hello Tom,

the last weeks I have read and analysed Patzek's paper he published together with David Pimentel in Natural Resources Research (vol. 14, No. 1, March 2005). I have checked his calculations on the energy surplus or deficit for the production of ethanol from corn. I ave also checked - as much as possible - the sources from which they obtained their data (mostly USDA eports and many other sources.
To top it off, I spent some afternoons talking with local corn farmers in my region (I live in the south of Holland, and there are many corn farmers here; they often combine raising corn with raising pigs or cattle).
My basic conclusion on Ptzeks paper is : HE IS RIGHT.
The farming of corn is not the big problem; if the region has a favourable climate (good rainfall; good soil; nice summers; availability of local organic fertilizer etc.), corn production has a positive energy balance. And may be better than Patzeks (average) data show. But the production of fuel-grade ethanol from corn is another matter. The fermentation and especially the distillation process equire huge amounts of energy, which is usually derived from ossil fuels (gas, oil, coal). If this energy were derived from renewable sources (solar, wind), it would be different, but these forms of energy are still relatively scarce, also here in Europe.
So, if we have to 'burn'1,3 liters of oil or gas to obtain the equivalent of 1 liter of bio-fuel, we do not serve the environment, do not reduce CO2 emissions and do bad business. If peak oil arrives (some say in 2-5 years), we will have to buy ever more costly oil to produce ethanol. No subsidy in the world will be able to keep up with this upwards moving price level, and the whole system of bio-fuel will collaps under its own economic weight.
My advise: get out of this game while you can, look for other ways to conserve fuels (hybrid cars; hydrogen-fuell cells; renewable energies as wind and solar etc.).

Dr. Pieter van Pelt
retired chemist, ex-Philips Electronics
Best (near Eindhoven), Holland

Bitter, green, and uninformed, I'm afraid.Patzek i...

2005-06-30T20:26:00.000-04:00

Bitter, green, and uninformed, I'm afraid.

Patzek is a Big Oil Apologist (crisis, what crisis? Drill ANWR!) living in an Ivory Tower fantasyland. Look at his C.V. -- he actually brags about his "friend of the oil industry" award. Look it up -- I did.

Let Roger know he can move to Minnesota, the E85 Capitol of North America, anytime. With 20 models of FFVs (flexible fuel vehicles) on sale now and more than 150 E85 pumps statewide (new stations opening every week), Minnesota is the place to be to use E85.

Who says so? The American Lung Association of Minnesota. Read more at www.CleanAirChoice.org

Ethanol isn't a miracle fuel. But it is cleaner burning than gasoline, and a good short-term step until practical, clean vehicles and/or fuel can be develped fully.

Here here! I am always glad to see another propon...

2005-05-30T11:41:00.000-04:00

Here here! I am always glad to see another proponent of the railway system.