Comments on Bitter Greens Journal: Seedy business: A sustainable-ag champion gets plo...

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2008-10-28T03:37:00.000-04:00

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2007-03-29T20:38:00.000-04:00

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Another Inconvenient Truthwww.eatkind.net/inconven...

2006-12-05T13:08:00.000-05:00

Another Inconvenient Truth
www.eatkind.net/inconvenient.htm

[Animals] were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men.
Alice Walker

The time will come when people such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of people.
Leonardo da Vinci

The average meat eater is responsible for the deaths of some 2,400 animals during his or her lifetime. Animals raised for food endure great suffering in their housing, transport, feeding and slaughter.
J Motavalli, So You're an Environmentalist; Why Are You Still Eating Meat?

I feel very deeply about vegetarianism and the animal kingdom. It was my dog Boycott who led me to question the right of humans to eat other sentient beings.
Cesar Chavez, United Farm Workers

I encourage the Tibetan people and all people to move toward a vegetarian diet that doesn't cause suffering.
Dalai Lama

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
Mohandas Gandhi

The human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind virtually every major category of environmental damage now threatening the human future: deforestation, erosion, fresh water scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss, social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread of disease.
World Watch

Nothing will benefit health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.
Albert Einstein

There is a direct relationship between eating meat and the environment.
Andrea Gordon, If You Recycle, Why Are You Eating Meat?

If anyone wants to save the planet, all they have to do is just stop eating meat. That's the single most important thing you could do.
Paul McCartney

Eco-Eating: Eating as if the Earth Matters
www.brook.com/veg

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2006-11-09T00:38:00.000-05:00

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sir,thanks you for hardwork.However,sir, i really ...

2006-04-21T08:47:00.000-04:00

sir,thanks you for hardwork.However,sir, i really need
help or a partner to do pig railing business.we have 4000hecters of land but the capital to buy pigs, fencing is not available.kindly help me with information.
mr christopher tasi.phone +2377497033.email:westherbresearch@yahoo.com.
Thanks.from cameroon,Africa.

Tom: I think it is proper and effective for you to...

2005-11-09T13:15:00.000-05:00

Tom: I think it is proper and effective for you to specifically attack Bush for anti-ag policies. When you do so without first having issued a gratuatous aside, you have your best chance at attracting a Bush supporter to agree with you on the main point, while you have done nothing to lesson the chance that your leftist readers will support you.

As you know, I am a supporter of "profits." The reason that Monsanto makes maximum profits from centralized mega-farms that produce marginally nutritious food full of toxins, etc., is that this is what the people mostly want. I view you and me as allies in selling "the people" on prefering something else... a preference that will shift those evil profits to small, decentralized farms and artisan food producers.

In this scheme, people like you greedy bastards at Maverick Farms will increase your profits by increasing the amount of nutrients that you infuse into your foods. I am certain that there are many corporate pigs and war mongers who want local spinach fertilized exclusively with mulched leaves and manure, etc. And you must admit that there are butt loads of peaceniks and advocates of "national healthcare" who prefer twinkies and pepsi and whose only consideration when grocery shopping is price.

Fair nuff. Maybe I was playing to the back row, to...

2005-11-09T12:49:00.000-05:00

Fair nuff. Maybe I was playing to the back row, to the greenies over at Grist. But I do not think sustainable-ag issues play out in a vacuum. For example, the U.S. occupation regime in Iraq has deliberately tweaked that country's law to be friendly to Monsanto--another reason why I find you painfully earnest for believing the "democracy" apology for why we invaded Iraq. Also, the same impulse that makes someone want to bluster into the ANWR to extract a year or two of oil, destroying habitat forever, makes someone want to abuse soil with chemicals to squeeze out a bunch of cheap and nutritionally marginal food. Both attitudes defy sustainabilityand quality of life and respect only one bottom line: that of profit. If Bitter Greens is doing its job, it should infuriate die-hard Democrats and Republicans alike. Both parties promote policies that prop up a ruinous food system--among other crimes. the Republicans get more heat from now now, well, because the control the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, and the presidency. (All, it might be added, with at best a slim and falling majority of support.)
Here's the link to a post I did about GM agriculture in iraq:
http://bittergreensgazette.blogspot.com/2005/02/monsanto-in-mesopotamia.html

Tom: Your justification for using this one anti-Bu...

2005-11-09T12:13:00.000-05:00

Tom: Your justification for using this one anti-Bush line might survive for me if this was the only instance.

But even in this case, you're taking your readers into irrellevent diviciveness. Isn't your goal to increase interest in sustainable ag, rather than get some easy nods from fellow lefties? I certainly understand attacking Bush for policies that directly affect sustainable ag, and for hiring people into Ag-related posts for which they're not qualified.

Sadly, I will conclude that "Bitter Greens" stands not generally for organic, sustainable, etc. ag, but rather specificially for *leftist* organic, sustainable, etc., ag.

You might glue your positions to other largely irrellevent divisive issues to your commentaries as well. "Toss the spinich leaves as a murderous anti-choice abortion bomber might toss a molitov cocktail"; "Health-concious Americans supporting big-ag farm subsidies makes as much sense as Clarance Thomas voting against Affirmative Action"; "Commercial tomatoes have as much color as Karl Rove has honest ideas".

Paul,In the wake of FEMA director Brown ("you're d...

2005-11-09T09:17:00.000-05:00

Paul,
In the wake of FEMA director Brown ("you're doing a heckuva job, Brownie") and Supreme Court nominee Miers ("absolutely the best I could find"), Fox News pundits and right-wing evangelicals have thundered and fulminated against Bush's cronyism. All presidents choose friends and supporters for top positions; most at least bow in the direction of conventional qualification. Bush has consistently shaken his fist at that notion. When he was just handing frothy no-bid contracts to his pals at Halliburton, bearding him for "cronyism" might have had a left-wing tinge. These days, it's the sort of thing you might read in the Weekly Standard or the Washington Times.

Hey Paul,I'm afraid you've lost me. Tom mentions, ...

2005-11-08T22:00:00.000-05:00

Hey Paul,

I'm afraid you've lost me. Tom mentions, as an aside, that the Bush White House is rampant with cronyism, a condition that presently is doing great harm to the health of our republic. There's no need for him to elaborate, since the column is about food, and the present White House cronyism and the harm caused by it is obvious to most Americans with functioning neurons. This is not about "leftist politics," this is about calling a spade a spade.

Maybe if you spent less time trying to sanctify the pResident Chimperor McLie-us-all-into-war, and spent more time advocating for a sustainable local organic food system, your kids would have something good to eat at school.

-otus anonymous

TomI'm a chef instructor and I started a food foru...

2005-11-07T17:50:00.000-05:00

Tom

I'm a chef instructor and I started a food forum yesterday. There is forum on sustainable agriculture. I invite you to discuss your farm.

http://s14.invisionfree.com/bookofrai/index.php?act=idx

Dear "Anonymous": 1) Please justify your charactor...

2005-11-07T13:15:00.000-05:00

Dear "Anonymous":

1) Please justify your charactorization of me as "Bush loving." I defy you to find any compliments by me for Bush.

2) Please justify your impression that I think Bush supports my Bitter Green view of food.

3) Please help me to understand how introducticing anti-Bush comments into this discussion will help us attract pro-Bush to our view.

4) I have a kid in public schools. Presumably a strong majority of the staff opposes Bush and votes democrat. My daughter is now in her third school, and for the third time I have tried to convince the principal to switch the school food probram to an organic one. It would be impossible for these three principals to be *less* interested in doing so. I do not think that anti-Bush people are very open to the idea of healthful eating.

Dear Paul,If you think Bush supports your stated c...

2005-11-04T23:10:00.000-05:00

Dear Paul,

If you think Bush supports your stated cause: "of banning refined sugar, hydrogenated oils, table salt, food colorings, etc. Also, I want my public school tax dollars spent on purchasing local produce, and raw dairy as well", then well, I have a war in Iraq I'd like to sell you. Now, Tom Harkin and other Democrats agree with that war, so clearly there's a problem here.

Stop the Bush Loving and maybe the Bush Haters will agree with your program. I suspect you're far too indoctrinated for that to occur. Good luck though!

Tom: 1) Do you read these comments?2) Your link fo...

2005-11-04T12:37:00.000-05:00

Tom:
1) Do you read these comments?
2) Your link for this article to gristmill is broken.

George: I think it is unfortunate that Tom present...

2005-11-04T11:29:00.000-05:00

George: I think it is unfortunate that Tom presents his food message in leftist packaging, because he deprives himself of supporters who are free marketeers, libertarians, republicans, etcs. I agree that the rest of his site contains this unneccessary interjection of leftist messaging. This is too bad, because most of his "bitter greens" philosophy has appeal outside of the leftist world.

There are perhaps parts of his "bitter greens" viewpoint which are inhernetly leftist, but his comment about "cronyism in the Bush white house" was certainly not one of them. It was gratiatous, and even non-specific to Bush, as you correctly point out. Would his article have suffered by not including this comment? No. Would it have turned-off leftist readers? No. Would it have offered more appeal to non-leftists? Sure.

This choice of Tom's suggests to me that he is not serious about maximizing support for the bitter greens perspective. I, on the other hand, seriously want to maximize support for such things as public schools banning refined sugar, hydrogenated oils, table salt, food colorings, etc. Also, I want my public school tax dollars spent on purchasing local produce, and raw dairy as well. All I have described is pure "bitter greens", but none of it is inherently leftist. There are Bush voters out there who want this as well. If Tom is going to take the time to promote such views, what does he gain by limitting his appeal to fellow Bush haters? What does he lose? And what does he lose by pulling the gratuitous anti-Bush comments?

Tom,Your link to Grist at the bottom doesn't work....

2005-11-03T21:24:00.000-05:00

Tom,

Your link to Grist at the bottom doesn't work. It looks like you just have just a link to "gristmill.org", so it's translating it as "http://bittergreensgazette.blogspot.com/gristmill.org", which obviously isn't correct :)

Also, paul, I think it's pretty obvious that

a.) Tom isn't a republican or anything; anyone who reads most of his site and is a huge george bush fan unfortunately won't take anything he says seriously
b.) cronyism is RAMPANT in the bush white house, but then again, it's always rampant in the white house. He doesn't have to necessarliy be aligning himself with leftists by saying that.

Tom: When you employ phrases like, "Imagine trying...

2005-11-03T16:12:00.000-05:00

Tom: When you employ phrases like, "Imagine trying to operate an Anti-Cronyism League from Bush's West Wing, and you get an idea of what the Leopold Center is up against," you unneccessarily couple our case with leftist politics. Do you hope only to convince Bush-haters to side with you on this issue? If so, while you're at it, why not pile on all the other issues that you support, such as ending US support of Isreal. That way you also alienate all the pro-Isreal people who might side with you on the issue of pig farming.